Going cold turkey

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Olcou1960
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Going cold turkey

Hi everyone. so well, my problem has been that I was not been able to get to sleep and / or to stay asleep even when I did managed to get some sleep as well as I have been feeling tired the day after that. So, I have been spiraling down to a list of sleep inducing drugs that I have made and it seems that all that happens it is that I am very rapidly gaining some tolerance to them which means that I need to use more and more or to use a stronger medication if I need to get some sleep. The last night I have had my medical pot and I have slept fine. very well, today it is the first day of getting off from that crap and I am really not expecting to get any much sleep, of course. However, I really hope that in a week or so I am going to win otherwise if I don’t I would be dead until then.

 

I have to say that I have had a strategy that I really thought it is going to work. I have taken some stuff that some people claimed that they took every night for a lot of years and it still has worked for them. the problem is that for me, if I am using it 10 times (which means 10 nights) – it is losing its effectiveness nearly completely. In fact to avoid such a rapid tolerance I have even took something different each night of the week and I was thinking that I would not get any tolerance this way. however I was not that lucky and I was still getting it and cross tolerance too. now I can easily say this: I can try something brand new for me and I know that it is going to work, however only a little bit (in the best scenario because there are cases when it won’t work at all from the very beginning).

 

I am not that sure, however this might not be as hard if comparing to a long term opiate or maybe benzo problem, however it is feeling very miserable and frustrating to lay in my bed all night long and then morning comes and I am still having no sleep. If this happens once, and the next day I am tired all day and then at night I sleep like a baby that would be fine. however, that’s not the case. All I have is that I might grab an hour or maybe 2 here and there. I also can say that I am not trusting myself to drive when I am sleep deprived that is why I have stocked up on food. I have to say that I am fortunate that I do not need to go to a job now, however I do know that this is going to be very tough. I really hope that in the end I would have a win, I do know that initially it would be amazingly hard, however I hope that in the end it would be fine.

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Hello there Olcou, it really

Hello there Olcou, it really sounds to me that you are not doing well at all and I am truly sorry or you. I need to ask you: can you get some professional help. that would surely make a change. Of course I am not so sure how it is your money supply and general financial situation or how this is going to affect your work situation but this really might change. Maybe EAP in case it is available. plus, obviously I only have read (not heard) what you are saying, however your post really sound to me like you are really down. I do understand that it does seem logical since you’re going through that but that’s no good… I am not a doctor and I am not a therapist or whatever else, but I am still sure that you should not do anything too impulsive without calling somebody that you know very well or “to play the tape through”.

 

Trust me I am really sorry that you’re going through this because I have also went through something similar and my only recommendation for you now would be (trust me I know that it may be hard) to make a gratitude list. This has really helped me in the past when I have been in that funky downer negative thinking mode and I really hope that this might help you either. good luck!

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From another insomniac here

From another insomniac here to another one I have to tell you that I am really very sorry that you are going through this right now. trust me I do know how it is, how hard and how it is rough, I do understand you very well. unfortunately, as I said, as you, I am also trying to find a solution for this so if I do find one, as soon as I do it, I am going to keep in mind that here’s another one who’s searching for it and I would let you know about it. up until then, unfortunately, I don’t have anything that might help you, no suggestions. I just wanted to let you know that you’re not the only one thinking that “maybe” this would make you feel at least a bit better knowing that you’re not alone. Hope we’re gonna find something in the end.

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Hello there OP and everybody

Hello there OP and everybody else. I wanted to chime in and to say that I do know it really sucks that you are now getting through that. I would really want to help you or at least I would really try doing so. Have you always suffered from insomnia and this is why you have used those sleep inducing medicines at all? either way, by using those medicines can exacerbate insomnia in the very end, pretty much like for example using anxiolytics can cause rebound anxiety. that is why I would really recommend you not to expect to have your “win” onto your insomnia in a few nights, but as much as it seems to me – you don’t seem to expect. In fact, by the way you write about it I am pretty sure that you don’t anyway, but I am just saying because that would be a big mistake.

 

Besides, something else “just saying” would be… (and I am sorry if this may seem pretty annoying due to the fact that I am also pretty sure you are aware of the following) but, have you tried exercising? I guess you do know that exercising helps with insomnia. When you simply type in search in google “methods to fight off insomnia” exercising is among the first ones.

 

For instance, if you are weaning off benzos it can cause a lot of insomnia (which it seemed to me that you do know about it). however, it can also cause anxiety about being able to sleep before it is even the time to sleep. Plus to all of this, you are waking up and you are not feeling well rested (in some cases barely rested) and you are not ready to face the day at all. plus, there are also other hypnotic drugs that can have pretty much the same side effects either.

 

This is the reason why I am recommending exercising. I always recommend exercising for people who suffer from insomnia. Of course, when you’re experiencing such kind of situation you can’t prepare for Olympic games, you need to start slowly with some very light cardio and after that to try to start pushing yourself as soon as you are feeling up to do so. This is going to make you more able to sleep and not only due to the fact that it is tiring you out but also because of the endorphins etc. etc. can help eliminate the issues that you may be having from using those sleep medications (especially long term). As soon as you are going to start to get over that initial (big) lack of energy and to push yourself then this is when you are going to feel that you are going to have more energy. Plus to it, when reaching this point your sleep patterns would already (most likely) be somehow improved. Besides, I also have to ask you: are you only using RX drugs?? Or you are already using valerian root, kava kava and so on and so forth?? If you haven’t then you really should because even though they may not consistently work either, there are some people who are using them during their withdrawal periods from the prescription medications.

 

I have to say that I have only had some mild insomnia naturally (which is not so annoying), however as a side effect of the drugs I was using, I have had some pretty severe insomnia that it is coming and it is going now pretty randomly.

 

There’s something else: is your lack of the job a temporary thing or an ongoing one? are you good money wise? I ask this because I do know that makes this kinda crap that much worse…. Besides, there’s something else I have forgot to mention but I would really like to add. It is the fact that most of the sleep inducing medications are actually resulting in less REM sleep (weed, benzos as well as benzo like medications all do it) which is the most restful kind of sleep. That is why, as you are withdrawing now, even if you are not taking any active steps like for example exercising, you are going to natural get more restful sleep. But, as usual, not right away of course… this should be kept in mind.

 

P. S. I guess that I have to make one more note here which I also forgot: I really do not think that you should do any exercise at all in case your intake of any dependence causing medicines has been a pretty large amount and for a pretty long period of time. I am saying so because you do not want to do anything too vigorous in case you are worried about having a seizure or whatever else might happen. I am not sure whether is this the case with you, but if that’s not then better try exercising. Really hope that soon you’ll have that win.

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“Trust me I am really sorry

“Trust me I am really sorry that you’re going through this because I have also went through something similar and my only recommendation for you now would be (trust me I know that it may be hard) to make a gratitude list. This has really helped me in the past when I have been in that funky downer negative thinking mode and I really hope that this might help you either. good luck! “

 

Seemorger, you know… I find it funny, however I have been doing just that. In fact, a few days ago I have been telling a small group of people that in case you are feeling down then one of the best things to do then would be to count your blessings that we are all having. it really seem to me that it does help. my biggest and main concern now is getting back to being able to sleep without any drugs.

 

Also, Anniand. Thank you for that. i have always had occasionally sleep issues, however a little bit of unisom or some other OTC things always have done the job well and in a short period of time. in fact, I can tell you that an entire pill was way too much for me to take. I remember there has been a time when I have been using approximately 1/8 of the pill and this has knocked me out just fine… oh times. I would really like to be the same because the last time I have taken 2 entire pills along with something else and I was still feeling that it is too little for me so as you can see my tolerance has gone waaaaaaaaay over the edge. Tolerance is the money wench in the works I would say.

 

Well… I have started by using low dose naltrexone a couple of three years ago in order to help with my nerve issues and I have noticed that it gave me insomnia. That is why I have went to herbal help which did helped me, however soon later it stopped from working. I have stopped the naltrexone that did helped not at all, however the insomnia never went away and stayed with me. that is why it has been stronger and stronger stuff. I also can say that I am out of the danger of doing something in rash, when I am thinking of ending it all I am just saying “this is only the anti depressant talking” and it is all going away. I am just going to hand on for as long as I can…. I am way too ornery to die young either way so… only the good. besides it is too late for me to die young so might as well die old as sin.

 

The last night I have had itches that is why I have taken one hydroxyzine for this which has helped a little bit (very little bit) with the help, however I would need about 6 of them in order to feel anything at all… it has taken me somewhere a good 5 hours or so, however it finally did it and get me some sleep, waking up occasionally too. today I am feeling tired and all wrung out, however I am not feeling that bad as I was thinking that I would feel. I do know very well that more is coming now and I really doubt a lot that I have seen and experienced the worst of it all yet, I am sure that it is awaiting for me. I am going to continue my once per week MJ cookie since I know that it is very good for preventing alzheimers, glaucoma as well as plus to all of that: I do like it. that is why I am going to get at least 1 night’s sleep per week and some day I may even get back to where I need to be. then I am going to have a crap top of the sleep aids that I do not need.

 

Lately, I would really want to thank you everybody for the concern shown as I really appreciate it as well as the kind thoughts you have shared here. that’s really supporting and I think it is really great to have a forum where everybody is trying to help each other because you never know, maybe you would find somebody who would give you an advise that you really help you with all you need. I am going to make it through and as I said, luckily I do not need to go to work that is why this is one blessing to count for me, that’s for sure.

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So here I am with an update.

So here I am with an update. Since it is the second day I thought I need to write how I feel – I feel more tired than the first day. which has been pretty expected. I had hoped that it would get only a tiny bit easier each night, however wish in one hand. I have to say that my face is getting a matched set of luggage as well as I get a feeling of sand under the eyelids. My irritability is going to have to be watched as much as I see due to the fact that I really do not want to go ballistic over some harmless thing… if you understand me.

 

Today I have also found myself thinking maybe only a little bit of something mild now and then it would be fine. I do realize that this is only backsliding kind of thinking, however in case I have to be somewhere and to do something that might be a reasonable excuse, I mean a really good enough reason to take a little of valerian root or something that night before. In case that stuff actually still would work I would really not have any problems.

 

But. There’s something else which makes me… concerned. As bad as it may be currently, I can only imagine how it is going to be 20 years from now on when I am on 2 mg of halcion or on 3 mg of xanax only to get some sleep. Thinking about what might be in 20 years that’s… truly scary. Don’t you think? or however many mgs since the tolerance is never stopping from progressing and growing more and more. or it does? (although it does not seem so)

 

But there’s one thing that makes me do it and it is the fact that in case I am not going to be able to do it now then I’m sure that I would never be able to do it so I have to accumulate all the will power, energy and the rest to do it now. then I am having a fridge that it is full of sleepy crap that it is saying “just tonight have a real nights sleep”. Or maybe I should toss it all out? don’t you think? and then that humiliation of ordering even more and to pay for the express delivery… I am too savings conscious to throw out good stuff.

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Hello there Olcou, I really

Hello there Olcou, I really hope that what I am going to tell here is going to help you a bit. There is an insomnia technique that it is called deliberate sleep deprivation. I guess you might have heard about it. but you haven’t then search for it. I’m going to try to explain. you stay busy (as you have already mentioned, do not drive in case you are sleep deprived) and do some light exercise, garden, chores, and also find work around the house, stay busy, dejunk and so on and so forth. Once more…. it is all only some light stuff.

 

So well, you can deliberately stay up until somewhere 12 PM or so (maybe even later) and only get in bed and get up (or simply just lie there in case you are not sleeping calmly as you are able). I would really suggest you some DVD’s in case you would find interesting or full cable /dish TV as that is truly amazing to keep you busy with the shows / movies and you really do not just lie there dwelling how the fact that you are not able to sleep which leads to even more : “I can’t sleep and it’s getting frustrating”. You are associating insomnia with watching shows that you are really very interesting in (TV deprivation).

 

Actually, used to think that not sleeping has been just awful and would really provoke anxiety for me over not getting any sleep at all. I have to say that this is totally a false statement. What really has helped me: a lot famous over achievers are getting only 4 or even less hours of sleep per night and they are building an empire – some may add in some all nighters to get the work done. I personally do not recommend this but it is still reassuring to know this.

 

Or I would also watch those military shows and how the weeding out of the process of the special OPS is involving the lack of sleep for a week or so (with approximately 30 minutes or so per day) and yet, they are still doing all that heavy exercises that they are required (heavy exercise hours per day and not sleeping is definitely not recommended here but still – you’ve gotta know it).

 

Or there are also a lot of survival shows where those people have had to stay awake for days on end without sleeping or sometimes even resting and once again with maximum 30 minutes per day.

 

Going without a lot of sleep and to remain calmingly busy is usually going to last not more than 3 or maybe 4 days. but no more than 4 days. I am have been wondering how much longer it would go on (during a withdrawal from some sleep medication) and I have then finally fell asleep without very much effort (in fact, nearly without any effort at all) on the fifth day. at that point, a pretty considerable smaller amount of your medication that you are choosing to use should be pretty much effective this time around. In my personal opinion you should not get rid of any medications that you are having, that is why it is hard to replace now, however this is your call on that.

 

And also in my opinion it is good that you do not drive and I would also recommend you not to make any big decisions about anything as you are going to feel so lack of sleep spaced out. you might even at one point not even feel like doing anything at all but the computer stuff or something in this matter. I would tell you that this is fine – you know your limits better. and even if you don’t then your body is going to tell you about them.

 

Also, I would follow the “get a professional help” advise. Check with your doctor about any exercise questions in case it is applicable, but a professional help really might help you. I wish you good luck an di really hope you’re going to have some success. just hang in there. you’ll be fine.

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Hey Olcou1960, I only wanted

Hey Olcou1960, I only wanted to let you know that you are here you are not alone and I am sure that worldwide there are a lot of us when it is coming to have issues with getting some sleep. I really have had some trouble since I have been a child but now I am having an 23 years old son that it is having the same exact problem either. I am now having to rely on Xanax in order to finally get some sleep because that’s my only chance and I really do not like it at all. either way, you should know that I am sending you positive thoughts on your way and I really really hope that they would reach you and you’ll all be fine soon. just hang in there and hope success would reach you. best wishes and best of luck.

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Hey there Olcou, I wanted to

Hey there Olcou, I wanted to ask you how it is your activity level currently doing? Everything’s fine? obviously, no sleep = no energy and I do know it well, however it is certainly that what ever you can do physically it si going to help you out. trust me I do know very well (unfortunately) this feeling when you are so tired that you get to the point when you’re literally too tired to go to sleep. I then have found out that I have to get out of the bed, I would sit up read, watch tv, listen to music and sometimes even talk to radio or tv would bore me to sleep, as it has been said by popo, also do not discard your medication or other aids as you never know when… also it is difficult to replace them.

 

My insomnia led me to watch such shows that I never thought they even exist so… either way, I really hope a lot that you are going to get some rest soon. wish you the best sleep.

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Hey there, have you looked at

Hey there, have you looked at, now do not all shout at the hippy kind of comment please, LOL, but have you tried any of the sound healing techniques??? I mean, if you haven’t then I think you should because they really might help. if you haven’t then you really never know whether it is going to help you or not. I do know that there are about 5 or maybe 6 frequencies that are relating to the human body, 528 hz is the balance as much as I can remember, it is right in the middle and this could maybe help to calm you down to your sleep, I think that there is an insomnia one either. there is idoser software or a lot of you tube videos that you should check them all out. I think that you may need to go through a few of them in order to find a good one and there is either the straight tone or the blended in with music, you should use one that it is having a good rating though. I personally have had a positive experience with it, however I now fear that I would become a tie dye, patchouli smelling, grateful dead espousing the vegetarian duuuuh duh. Oh no, I did feel calm afterwards. I really think that you should give it a try out mate. After all, you only try, surely you have nothing to lose and I think nothing else to do. all you lose is just a lot of time, pretty much what (I guess) you need to lose now.

 

And yeah, by the way, I do not intend to offend anybody, I really like hippies and I would like to talk to one so I’m sorry if offended, it was just a joke.

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Hi everyone again, it is the

Hi everyone again, it is the 3rd day. all I want to do right now (of course besides sleeping), is to sit there with eyes closed because that’s the only way when they do not burn. Now, from all that lack of sleep, even standing up really seem to be like too much work for me. in fact, writing this is an effort for me. I barely write it. I barely see what I write here. I do agree that exercise is good, it really is, however bad ankle is stopping much walking and the back issues I have are making other things very hard for me to accomplish either. I am just sitting in here and I think that I really need to exercise, however I can’t. that’s such a situation when even raising my arm now is requiring concentration and seem that raising both my arms is impossible now.

 

The last night I have stayed up for hours just sitting there in the dark and I was hoping that I would finally feel sleepy and I would, maybe, finally, get some sleep. I was baarely falling asleep, but right before going into the “sleep mode” there has been a dream that woke me up and I could not go back to sleep anymore. that made me mad at this entire world. Is there somebody who has said that the 5th day should be better yes?? Really hope so. It really seems to me like any kind of withdrawal that it is letting you sleep could not be any worse than this and might be even easier, not sure though.

 

Staub… you hippie… I am an old hippie myself and I really do not even look like one, but I still am. gotta say that I really do not understand at all that hate toward the hippies that the younger people really seem to have. but I know that most of them are having no clue at all. they are smoking pot, they are demonstrating against greed, they are growing long hair and they are hating on hippies. I really think that there should be somebody who should hold up  a mirror, however it would really not going to do any good at all… I guesss. Unfortunately there has never been a hate on beatniks trend. In fact, not unfortunately… but kind of strange.

 

I have been too tired to go to sleep from the get go. currently I have reached that stage of tiredness when I am too tired to care if I ever sleep. I’m to tired to care about anything… in fact. I know that there’s one very interesting act and it is that the sleep deprivation is very often chasing away depression. I really do not recommend it due to the fact that the cure may be worse than the disease and it is only lasting until you are getting sleeping regularly once again. once again, the fifth day you tell me? gonna wait for it.

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Hey there Olcou, yes it is

Hey there Olcou, yes it is true, you definitely still want to rest even if you are not fretting over falling asleep the whole night. I think that it really may not be such a bad idea to focus and concentrate all your energy away from falling asleep onto just being restful during the night time (veggin’ out) and to try to be as active as it is possible before doing that, which is pretty much as the popo has been saying there. in this way you are not going to mess up completely your circadian rhythms and whatnot. I would recommend you not to go for all out sleep deprivation due to the fact that it is having bad effects of its own either.

 

As far as exercising when your body it is not really primed for it, I would really say walk at an accelerated pace for approximately 30 to 40 minutes. Or more if you want to. and I would recommend you: do not ever bother by doing jogging or by lifting weights or anything in this matter. I guess that you do, most likely, want to do some running kind of stretching after 5 or about 10 minutes in order to be sure that your muscles are being warmed up. sometimes, a sore ankle is something that you are actually getting from better from exercise, even though I really do not know all for sure whether this is the case for you or it is not.

 

Either way, reading all these comments you really kind find some really good tips here, definitely. The only experience with insomnia is when it is being induced from some drugs, it really seem to me like we have got some seasoned vets of the world of insomnia down here. but, there’s one thing that I really can relate more (much more than the insomnia, at least) and it is the fact that you are experiencing the big lack of energy. While I really do have a little bit of insomnia all the time now, I really have a late schedule that is why I really do not have to go to sleep. I can say that you really need to take this advantage of the fact that you are not working now, it is like this lack of work is special for your timing now and you really do not need to worry very much about logging hours of the sleepy time. just worrying about feeling better.

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hey there mate, I, as well as

hey there mate, I, as well as a lot of others here I’m sure, know just how nasty a detox period can really be, however after the first week you really should start seeing some improvement slowly slowly and by the end of the second week you should be feeling noticeable better. I have thought that you were doing something else that is why I have deleted my first reply, it is the issue now that you are trying to quit the tablets?

 

And by the way: Do sound like a little bit of hippy don’t I? LOL. Oh well, as I have said, I quite like (a lot) the ideals from the 60s and 70s and to be honest I would really like to have been there. lived there. I guess I would be a good “participant” then :D

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oh yeah Staub, I have been

oh yeah Staub, I have been taking a smorgas board of some different things. I have been thinking that I could outweigh the tolerance stuff in case I would take a lot of different things. and not only some different antihistamines, since they do work on one or maybe 2 receptors only, however there are also other things that are working on some other receptors as well. I have been taking something different every single night (I guess I said it once, no?). the Monday it might be primidone with doxepin, on Tuesday Seroquel along with tizanidine or maybe with etizolam, on Wednesday it might be amitriptyline with clonidine, on Thursday it could have been olanzapine with something tossed in. then later on Friday it has been Neurontin with mirtazapine and then later on Saturday it has been thorazine with most likely zolpide and on Sunday was reefer cookie day with sometimes some phenibut.

 

And on the top of all o that I might toss in some hydroxyzine as well or maybe baclofen or whatever else if what I has been taking did not seem to work for me. instead of trying to dodge the tolerance bullet, I have been getting tolerance to everything that exists on this freaking planet. After so much drugs taken and so much failures I have gave up, I have stopped to search for some new things due to the fact that I knew for sure that it would either not work at all or would work for only a little bit. I did have tried the magic bullet zolpidem (everybody is calling it) not so long ago and it did have worked a little bit in the beginning (which has already been expected) but after a few times it has been useless by itself (which also has been expected pretty much) but I have to tell you (for those who don’t know) that thing is not cheap at all.

 

I did have read about those people who are using the same stuff for every single night for some years and they are having no issues at all, this really seem to be only a dream for me. something impossible. Something that I would really like to have myself. I one would get sleepy, however damn if I could drop off… they would only get me half the way there and that’s it. I do know that it is sounding like a beatle tone right now… day tripper and night time zombie.

 

What I have noticed (not sure if that’s really true or it is just me who cannot understand what’s going on with me) is that I seem to have more energy later in the day than earlier. not sure why. What is working the best is to relax all of the part of my body. and after that I am trying to focus only on my breathing and not to think about anything interesting at all. just think and focus and concentrate etc. etc. only exclusively on my breathing. After approximately one minute or so I have been off and I was thinking about some stressful things and back to the relaxation and to the breathing method. after approximately 100 repeats or maybe even more, I have been getting somewhat a liiiiittle bit sleepy. I have done that with those medicines too in order to make them working better, at least trying very hard to do so. But at this moment this is all that I have got… unfortunately. Yeah… that one and a pretty nice baked potato for the dinner.

 

But in the end it is true, I am not depressed at all right now, I can feel it well. the sleep deprivation really does do this for you. thinking about this a bit… even the devil is for some good for something, in the end… I guess. like this evil that’s following me, maybe in the end… everything is for greater great? Really hope so.

 

I wish you good luck to those people out there that are having sleeping issues like I do. stay strong bothers. Try not to get into the vicious cycle of the more and more and stronger and stronger drugs like I did, I guess that this has done it all even worse.

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Hello there Olcou again, are

Hello there Olcou again, are you on the 4th day now, isn’t it?? I was just wondering how your thing were going? I would like to know how are you by now? did you got some sleep?

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Hey there all. that’s very

Hey there all. that’s very good for me to read. I’m glad that I found you all. I’ve got to say that I am currently on my second day of waking up in the middle of the night now. of course I don’t like it, and I also don’t like to use anything, but I did, I have been using muscle relaxers in order to go back to sleep and that’s pretty annoying. Thinking about it… I definitely need to start exercising, running or at least walking and I also have to start to read my book once again. they would definitely help me out. there is too much board life, too much personal drama as well as too much food… of course, when there’s personal drama it can’t go without too much food. As usual. Somehow I need to find some peace, doesn’t really matter how, I am even starting to think about yoga. This is what is waking me up, it is this feeling of distress, the feeling like I have not addressed something very and very important. besides, you know, there is something extremely weird that I still cannot understand and it is the fact that when there is a full moon, I am almost always waking up and that’s even though my room is nearly completely dark without any “moon light” or whatever else. don’t you find it weird? I think that’s odd but since full moon can affect dogs / wolfs, isn’t it affecting us, humans, too? does this happen to anybody else too? or I am alone like this? maybe I am having a bit of werewolf in my, perhaps? And although I’m not transforming in one, I can feel that there’s something wrong.

 

Going off trying to sleep until there’s not a full moon) and yeah… hope that I did not hijack. Best wishes.

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Hello there tameeka and thank

Hello there tameeka and thank you for posting. That was by no means a hijack, it was very interesting. As you, I also think that the full moon is definitely affecting people in some strange way that we cannot explain, yet. I have read an article by a scientists that was supposedly “debunking” this theory since it is smacking of astrology, isn’t it? however, I am pretty sure about one thing… if you’re going to talk with somebody who’s responsible of “being peace” like for example an long time cop, or a psych worker and so on and so forth, I am pretty sure that they would tell you that it is getting oddly crazy around that time when there’s full moon. People’s senses or whatever are going crazy.

 

Indeed, exercise is good for what ails you. for the back spasms you should try a heading pad which may help. I am getting pains in the middle of my back that it is surely waking me out of a sound sleep. In case I am using the pad for like an hour or so in the evening I have noticed that I have some less problems at night. there are sometimes when I need it right in the morning when I just get up and they also do help. generally it seems to me that heating pads are good for a lot of things, you should try it out. Also, popo, yeah, now it is the 4th day. but I have to say that I really do feel a little bit better today. yeah I did got some sleep, even a bit more last night and I got to sleep a little bit sooner. It really seems to me that I am winning and this is so comforting! I still have to endure a lot as I have not won since I am still feeling wrung out, however I think that if I can concentrate enough I could even drive the short distance to the store, although I don’t want to risk.

 

I can tell you guys… there’s nothing that can could make you feel more virtuous that overcoming that nasty habit like those pills. that’s… amazing. while sitting here in front of the computer I was searching for these kind of stories, of course, and I have heard that benzos are even harder to kick as well as tramadol is very very hard either. I’ve seen that opiates can mess up somebody big time, however I have been discussing with some ex junkies and they all have said that kicking junk has been the easy part, cigarettes were just waaaaay too hard to quit. And even so, people are quitting this bad habit either. which leads me to the thought that there’s nothing impossible, is it? 

 

I am having a lot of stuff on the way that it is taking its time. maybe I am going to get lucky enough this time too and it is going to be sent back by customs and I am going to be able to get a refund but if this won’t happen then I would have to look at it and fight with myself.

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Hey there Olcou, that’s truly

Hey there Olcou, that’s truly great that you have got some sleep, hope you’ll win!

 

Sitting down when you are reaching the exhaustion point is pretty fine, that it is actually pretty resting. I one should have reiterated by the 4th day or maybe even sooner for some you become almost like a walking zombie – you are just schelping around however I still have tried to stay lightly busy and I would sit down a little bit more. however I was still aiming for the bedtime later with the tv on.

 

Even if you do want to rest your eyes (and I do know that you want) then you still need to have something on, that you are going to listen to. I would really recommend you not to sit or lie there all alone only with your thoughts (unless you really like that which I doubt, but who knows?)

 

Besides, you are definitely right about the fact that the true exhaustion is taking away the depression and it is taking away even anxiety too. it is pretty much a survival mechanism, you should read about it and thought how true. let me give you an example on this one (but those who are snake phobics be aware): you are starting a hike and are wary of any snakes around the trail. You are getting lost and then after a couple of days of wandering you could care much less about the snakes and then finally you are collapsing in the grass and you are getting some sleep while you are totally obvious and aware about the snakes there. you are getting rescued and then eventually fear snakes on trail once again along with maybe this possibility of getting lost, this is a built in thing I would say.

 

Also, with your ankle and back you could like a program like for example Tai Chi (some light flowing exercise) that you could change for your need. You should try it out, I guess. don’t forget to keep us posted and updated. We’re all interested here, I guess. at least I am.

 

Also, it is pretty funny, tameeka I am about to (after forcing wakefulness until about 11 or 12) go and watch “werewolf” the movie which is having a great opening shot of a full moon. So want to stay awake for such a fantastic movie, however fall asleep pretty quickly. Only half of the zolpidem tablet is working with this method.

 

I did have had insomnia recently and I have realized that I was not going to fall asleep that is why I have watched the entire movie (that I really love and I did deep breathing exercises as well) and I have got only our hours of sleep. The next night I have slept better.

 

And yeah, it is obvious that typing all these long posts here on the forums (by the way, isn’t there a word limit?? I was wondering if I would reach it and so far – I haven’t) or some long emails is making me and I guess all of the readers, sleepy.

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Hey there. I am thinking that

Hey there. I am thinking that it is exhaustion that it is making me not to sleep. A week of making social, medical and educational decision for my daughter. Having kids it is the greatest responsibility on this earth. She is currently at such a critical age.

 

However I have one night down, almost sleeping through the entire night and I have been feeling a lot more better today until I had to do some more medical stuff with her that was physically causing her pain. And I also have to explain my thought process to those much more educated people than me.

 

However she survived, I have passed and now I tis time to go to sleep. We have made good progress. Wish me good luck everybody, really hope I’m gonna get some. Being able to sleep has been always my saving grace and one of the most “restful” things. I am really asking the god not take it away from me this time.

 

Popo, a word limit? no, I guess, not, and I really hope that there are not because it is pretty much like my survival technique. Wish you all good luck and hope we’re all going to get sleep.

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hey there everyone again. the

hey there everyone again. the last night I did woke up, however I did not take any pills, all I have done was to lie down and to count my breaths and the amazing part it is that it did worked. I owe this change in behavior to you and your thread that is why I really want to say a big thank you for this. and yeah, I am sorry Olcou if I have been insensitive to say that I am usually sleeping well..

 

by the way, I have been searching information about the fact of that “little werewolf” living in me and the full moon affecting people that is why I have found an article about this. due to the fact that we are not able to post links here, I have thought that it would be a good idea to post it right here so you could read it. I really hope that you are going to find as interesting as I did when reading it. sometimes I really need to read something like this because it helps me to realize once again and to see how small we actually are in the scheme of the world. Honestly, I have not understood all of it, approximately 90 % only, but it was very enough for me to be impressed and to really like it. so, hope you would like it.

 

"The ocean tides mirror life itself. Their ebb and flow pay homage to the cyclic nature of the cosmos along even the most secluded seashores. But is life itself also ultimately a fluke of the tides?

 

If so, life may ultimately owe its origins to our serendipitously large moon. The sun and wind also drive the ocean's oscillations, but it is the moon's gravitational tug that is responsible for the lion's share of this predictable tidal flux.

 

Our current Earth–moon system, according to the prevailing theory of lunar formation, reflects our solar system's early game of planetary billiards, when colliding planetary embryos created entirely new versions of themselves—in the case of our own planet, a disproportionately large natural satellite in close orbit.

 

It all started some 4.5 billion years ago when, as theory has it, our nascent Earth was blindsided by a Mars-size planetary embryo, believed to have spun Earth into its initial fast rotation of roughly 12 hours per day. The molten mantle thrown into orbit after the catastrophic lunar-forming impact quickly coalesced into our moon. Within a few thousand years, Earth cooled to an object with a molten surface and a steam atmosphere. Life emerged some 700 million years later, or about 3.8 billion years ago.

 

But four billion years ago a cooling Earth already had an ocean, but remained barren. The moon was perhaps half as distant as it is now, and as a result, the ocean tides were much more extreme.

 

At an average distance of 235,000 miles (380,000 kilometers), the moon is currently receding from Earth at a rate of 1.5 inches (3.8 centimeters) per year. As it does, Earth's own spin rate is slowing. And, in the process, roughly 1020 joules of gravitational energy is shed into the oceans annually.*

 

Over the eons, all that energy has had an evolutionary impact.

 

"The oceans' tidal flow helps transport heat from the equator to the poles," says Bruce Bills, a geodynamicist at the NASA Jet Propulsion Laboratory in Pasadena, Calif.

 

"Without the lunar tides, it's conceivable that climate oscillations from the ice age to the interglacial would be less extreme than they are. Such glaciations caused migrations of animal and plant species that probably helped speed up speciation."

 

Bills also points out that such tidal heat transfer could have also mitigated climate fluctuations. The problem in determining which ""tidal forcing"" scenario is correct, he says, is that climate researchers currently lack data spanning extremely long timescales. Even so, Peter Raimondi, an ecologist at the University of California, Santa Cruz, says the tools of evolution are also driven by the tides' influence on these intertidal regions.

 

"In a rocky intertidal area," Raimondi says, "it's very clear there are strong evolutionary pressures brought on by a changing environment over a short spatial scale. Without our moon, our marine environment would be much less rich in terms of species diversity."

 

But is the influence of the lunar tides actually responsible for life itself?

 

If life originated around deep ocean hydrothermal vents (so-called black smokers), then the lunar tides played a minor role, if any, says James Cowen, a biogeochemical oceanographer at the University of Hawaii at Manoa. If, however, life originated in tidal waters, he says, then tidal cycles could have played a major role.

 

*CORRECTION (4/23/09): An earlier version stated that three terawatts (3 TW) are shed into the oceans annually; 3 TW is the measure of the power dissipated continually."

 

I have to say that this is not the entire article. I only have posted the “most important” out of it. I guess. but if you’re truly interested in reading the entire article you would need to search on the scientificamerican site. hope you enjoyed it.

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Hello Olcou, there are a lot

Hello Olcou, there are a lot of guys that are saying that MM is making them worse, however it is helping me too. find it levels out my temp swings, it is helping me to relax, to take away the anxiety, it is numbing the pains, helping me to sleep and the appetite.

 

For me I have found out that it is approximately the 8th day or so when you are starting to feel even remotely human again, however it is going to be different from one to another, I suppose because it is pretty much depending on each and what it has been that they were taking and for how long and their general condition and so on and so forth.

 

A lot of warm baths have always helped me either, not just with the aches, but you are going to feel maybe a bit better in the mind too when you are going to be clean. I really hope that this time is not going to feel like it is too much for you mate. Best wishes.

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hello there OP, I really do

hello there OP, I really do feel your pain, for me coming of opiates and benzos cold turkey it has been hell of a week, full of pains, depression, diarrhea, weakness, exhaustion, and approximately 3 or maybe 4 hours of sleep all together as well as a very big loss of appetite. Generally I’ve been having a life that I would not want to experience ever again. I doubt that it can be worse. The good news is that your body is going to get used to going with out the medications and then adapt to it and you’ll feel all fine without anything. Personally for me, while I have been using I was sleeping like a baby every single night, however as soon as the medications are cleaned out completely out of your system and you are getting over the withdrawals you are going to sleep much much much much much better…. believe me, you are going to feel amazing after that. after that you may still have a little bit of sleep issues because everybody is different, however it is going to be a lot more easier. Besides, you could try some other things like for example exercising, yoga, reading and so on and so forth in order to help you to sleep better. these things really help. try walking in the morning. Doing yoga later. then running a bit (if possible) then again yoga. Later in the night do a hot bath and after that read. This might help a bit. hope it will. I wish you good luck and to everybody else who is dealing with this problem. I do know that it can be very hard and very bad but you can do it.

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Olcou, that is very good that

Olcou, that is very good that you did not turn to benzos for getting sleep, that’s amazing! I have been sure that it was a part of your combination. this was what most of my advised has been based on… benzo withdrwal.

 

I am honestly very glad that you have managed and found the strength to stay away from them as this would be a lot more harder otherwise. Besides, I do think that it is fair to say that the 5 th day is when you are going (or at least should) START feeling better. that’s a huge difference because you only should start. I personally have had only mild benzo withdrawals especially if comparing to what other people are going through (I do know…), however it has taken me approximately 2 weeks or so to actually feel normal again (normal more or less…). but the 5 days would be only when I have just started to feel a bit more normal than I have been feeling in the past. I am not trying to be pessimistic here at all, I was always kind of a positive person, however I just want to let you know that if you are thinking something like: oh hey, it is the 5th day now and why I am not feeling THAT different? Because you are just getting started to feel a bit different and better than before.

 

And yeah, by the way, I have also tried this strategy of constantly and continuously switching drugs in order to reduce the tolerance. As you, I have also had like a “circle of drugs” which were going around. However I have also found out that it does not work very well overall, it is not so helpful in reducing the tolerance. However, most of what you have been using it is not highly addictive. But even so, any of the sleeping medications is dependence inducing to a small degree… as you already know, I guess.

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Hey all. thank you for your

Hey all. thank you for your replies. really appreciate. Also, tameeka, thank you for your article about that. really enjoyed reading it. so well, it is the day 5.

 

I did have slept better the last night and that’s giving me even more hope and confidence that I will win. Today I still woke up feeling better, however I was still tired and wrung out. it is pretty much like I am recovering here from an illness or something. Or at least that’s how I feel. Do not try this in case you are having a job that you really want (or need) to keep. Better talk to your boss if that’s the case. Tell him (her) that you need a week off because a weekend is definitely not going to do the trick, you are going to need an entire week for that and I really hope that it is going to be enough (because it might not be as I am now in my 5 th day and I can’t guarantee that the 7 th day I would feel amazingly (or at least normal).

 

The good side is that the lack of sleep, not only the tiredness itself, is going to knock out the depression. besides, I also did not feel any anxiety at all now, that is why it is very likely that this is true either. so well, I guess that this is pretty much like an accident only, I happen to be a practitioner of tai chi, and I have been for many years now. it is truly having a lot of benefits. Amazingly is the fact that today I am not feeling any depression and no nervousness, maybe that is cured already? Hope so a lot. and maybe it is going to start to rain money….

 

I am going to take something at times in case I am going to feel stressed out or excited at the bedtime. However, not every single night to the entire week, generally as rare as possible. In case I have a pretty hard time to get to sleep I just need to remember this week and I really won’t be considering any pills if I am going to think about them again.

 

And yeah, I think that there is an pretty interesting factoid and it is that 2 things have always worked for me. the pot cookie as well as using Neurontin with mirtazapine. Not sure why but by somehow of miracle, I have never had to up the dose. In case everything worked that well I really could stay with it. however I am pretty sure that in case I took those all during the entire week they would stop from working either quickly. The reason why I say so is because one time I did have tried a pot cookie twice per week and it really seemed not to have the exact same effect on my sleep this time so I doubt that it would keep the efficacy if for example I would use it 3 times or even 4 times a week for say a month… I doubt that then it would have any efficacy at all.

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hey there. I am not a very

hey there. I am not a very big expert in all of this so I won’t be taking much of your time, there’s only one question I have but I do realize that it could be irrelevant or unhelpful, however I still think that I need to ask you this: have you tried simply to consume a dose of Nyquil before you are going to sleep? This thing has really helped me a lot from time to time when I needed to get some sleep but I could not due to the fact that I have been having some problems with anxiety. Nyquil has worked amazingly on me so I have been thinking that it might work on you the same? If it won’t (or if you have already tried it and it didn’t), I am sorry I took your time.

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hey there mate, I do know

hey there mate, I do know that you are going to feel like doing this, however I can guarantee that this is going to help you out a lot. exercising. Long exhausting exercise of some kind. This is the only thing that it is helping with my insomnia (a lot) and it is pretty much the only thing that is doing it, other things all failure to help me. using medications for sleep is really a very bad habit in order to get into as you seem to know it, your body is very quickly developing a tolerance to whatever drug you are trying to use that is why you start to double up the dose and then to tripe it up and then you are going to have to look for some stronger chemicals and then to raise up the dosage of those stronger chemicals either until you find yourself unable to sleep without medications at all and unable to sleep WITH them either. you should look for some natural ways, however I am very sure here that you have already heard about this in the past. You should look into joining a gym or something, or finding an exercise program that you can do at your home becaue there are a lot of programs for everybody and it does not matter how old you are, how out of shape you are o over weight you might be or whatever else might be. but by doing so you are going see how amazing you are going to feel and to sleep, you are going to have a much better sleep, believe me. I really hope very much that this is going to be helpful for you, but if you are going to do everything as I said I am pretty sure that you are going to find it so helpful. everybody finds exercising helpful.

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And yeah, tameeka I wanted to

And yeah, tameeka I wanted to also add here something else, that has been an very interesting article. I have read it once again and I thought that I need to let you know how interesting it was. I am very glad that one of my little suggestions have helped you a bit. also, do not forget to try the heating pad in case you are having the back discomfort (have you used it?).

 

I have to say that I did not use any benzos exactly, however it has been on the track to do it. I have taken etizolam which has benzo like effects as well as zopiclone which is pretty related as well. but I think that it has been only a matter of time. frankly, I have been worried about the side effects of all of those drugs, and not only being able to sleep. Seroquel is having dopamine receptor action as does one or 2 others too. I have found out that this can lead to tardive diskenesia and this is not curable. I think that a little insomnia is much less bad than constant twitches, isn’t it?

 

Also, about the Nyquil, I have to say that it is one of those mild things that it is working only for those people who have not tried already everything else.

 

Now, you are saying day 8?? When I am going to get there somebody is going to tell me the day 14 and after when I would reach it there would be somebody who would tell me day 100. I think that I am now enough recovered to go to some placed that I have planned to go today. when you are severely sleep deprived you are having only micro sleeps and must not drive, I know. you are going to nod out for a second or maybe 3 and you are not going to notice it until you wonder why you have pulled out in front of those cars.

 

The old debil had me in his clutches, however I am slipping loose. Thinking a bit about it, I realize that I would most likely going to always have some trouble to sleep now and then, however I decided that there would be no more daily junk anymore. when the valerian and the melatonin is going to start working once again I would MAYBE start using them again, but I would try to do so very rarely. Not use at all if possible. I do know that I need to exercise more in the morning so I would feel more tired at night. yoga might be a good idea. We will see.

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Hey olcou, I am having

Hey olcou, I am having nothing to contribute here, sorry (help wise), I really wish that I did and it makes me kind of sad, but I am pretty sure you can do it without my help. I have been waiting for the day 5 post for a while now. I am very glad that you have finally posted it and it does seem that you do better now. I also dare to ask you: it really does seem to be getting a little bit easier, isn’t it? really hope that you are better now and would be even better later.

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Here’s a few more of my

Here’s a few more of my thoughts. Firstly I guess that I should congratulate you with day 5. That’s really success. also, Tai Chi is truly a great practice or discipline. You really should be feeling free to elaborate. I do know that I could google it, however this is not going to give me the personal experience which I think that this is the best. or you really might not, in case you do not feel like it. also, you may know that I am an asker of a lot of question but I am an expector of no answers so it is up to you.

 

You are going to take something sometimes? This pretty much is scaring me, is worrying me that you might get into some trouble. it is only comforting that you do seem to realize that you should not do it often. As soon as you are getting through all of this then you really might want to consider to put a very firm limit like for example 2 times per week by most, or maybe even less. I am not a very big expert so I don’t know. to be honest, I am kind of shocked a bit that your alternating method did not work on the sleeping drugs and I say so because it really seemed like it should in theory. Thank you for that because I think that it is a valuable lesson that we should learn, we need to share with those on this board, as you have done with your thread which is truly helpful.

 

Besides, regarding on the mj stuff, different brands/ strains are being supposed to do different things to a person’s body. not that I am purchasing that (literally or figuratively) but I think that this is one of the advertising claims. I do know when I have used to use in my wilder much younger years, haha, I would sleep like a baby in case i could get away from the post dinner snack food food. However never had any dreams and this for me has been a very nice change. I am just keeping some thoughts here but I think that you need to keep up the good work. You really need to finally find that magic sleeping spot in your brain all alone by yourself without any supplements or medications at all. I really hope a lot that you are almost there, it really does seem to me like you are almost there. I do know that we are all here routing for you, you’re going to have success!! you will win!

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here is the day 6 and with

here is the day 6 and with new changes.

 

Firstly, popo, sorry for not responding. I just have seen your yesterday message and yeah, thank you for much for asking, yes, I do feel a bit better, today it is the 6th day and I am feeling even better, I am still tired but I am feeling better each day that passes. Pretty sure sooner I would be much better.

 

Tameeka, I have been introduced to the tai chi a lot of years ago, like 40 years ago or so and I have been doing some of it every single day since the day I was introduced for like 20 years or so. It is very good or balance, for calm, for getting in touch with yourself. I do recommend it to those who have not tried it out. after a while after practicing it you are learning to move energy and it really can be very interesting.

 

Also, I really appreciate that you care about what I am feeling and planning to do. no, I am not planning to take anything more than 2 times per week and including the pot here. but as I said, even less than that if possible. Most weeks would be nothing else. but I would really try to stick up with those weak stuff like for example melatonin as I said or tryptophan and rarely use it. also, as you, I am surprised too, of course not pleasantly surprised… but what else I can do? I am talking about the alternating sleep medications method did not worked out. I can’t be sure here, hwoever what I can suspect is that they are all overlapping a good bit and when Wikipedia is telling that it is working on a calcium channel blocker and something else it is a sodium channel blocker, they are only guessing as to the action.

 

Well, what I had read over and over again was the fact that all of these things are having occasional awful side effects. those side effects are ranging from some serious and possibly deadly skin disease to some other little known diseases in general to the well known tardive syndrome as well. I have kept telling that it is only one in one hundred, only one or maybe two in one thousand and it is only happening to those that are taking a very large dose and so on. however, we are all coming down with something fatal sooner or later that is why… why to make your chances even worse? When I have reached that point that I have realized that my strategy it is not working, that I would have to use some larger and larger doses and that any of the new wonder drug is almost surely be a bust, I have then took the decision to finally bit the bullet myself because it was the only way out of this vicious cycle, of this trap. And I did knew that getting through this trap won’t be easy at all.

 

There’s one thing that it is really strange and I am wondering how it is that for a long time and never understood it… it is the fact that one of the most addictive drugs that are known and possibly it is indeed the most addictive out of them all, it is perfectly legal. I am pretty sure you do know very well what I mean. it is having some very well known health risks and it is implicated in a lot of diseases. However I am sure that our good government is saying this: addictive along with unhealthy along with big payoffs from producers – this must be perfectly legal. In the time there it is some kind of plant that it is not physically addictive, it is having a lot of well known health benefits – it is not legal, it is not allowed and such strict that not even a doctor is able to prescribe it to anybody. not even a laboratory or group of scientists are able to work with it unless they are jumping through 1000 regulatory hoops and pay of the right and “good” politician. I am sure that you do know very well what that one is too. the government is saying: health benefits and it is not addictive and it is opposition from booze and cigarettes makers – that is illegal like nothing else.

 

Besides, about the moon (sorry about the off topic, as well as the above off topic statement) the moon has been known for millennia has having some effects on humans and mostly, of course, emotional. However the scientist really seem to like to think that they know it all so they scoff. Every generation of the scientists are saying that the previous generation has been full of full, however this time around I think that they have got it right.